Thanks David!
What about the temp David?
Serge
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| Bending Ziricote http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8385 |
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| Author: | BobK [ Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:59 am ] |
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I haven't broken them - yet. I use a bending form and heat blanket, what's a good temp? Also, what thickness should I shoot for? I'm at .080 right now, but it seems a little thick for the reputation that ziricote has. Thanks for the help. Bob K |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:54 pm ] |
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Bump I'd be tempted to sy 0.70-0.75" thick but i'll wait 'till the pros chime in, i want to know that too! |
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| Author: | dberkowitz [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:01 am ] |
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I bent mine at .093", like I bend everything except that the cutaway was locally thinned to .070". GO SLOW. Nothing is more demonstrative of the unnecessary need for speed than Taylor's new side bending videos. Sometimes ziricote will split lengthwise during a complicated bend, especially in a cutaway when there is significant runout in the board. Finish bending, including the cutaway, wet the split section down, brace it from both sides with a few spring clamps and some cauls and clamp it down tight to close the split. Leave it for a day or so until its dry and feed CA into the crack to weld it together. Make sure you get it to bleed through the other side. Leave it clamped for an hour. Set it aside and then clean up the glue and you're good to go. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:04 am ] |
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Thanks David!
What about the temp David? Serge |
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| Author: | dberkowitz [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:25 am ] |
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Standard 290-300F. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:32 am ] |
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Thanks again David! Serge |
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| Author: | BobK [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:54 am ] |
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I bent the first side today with no issues. (Yes I now I just guaranteed failure on the next one tomorrow night.) Thinned to .075 and at 300 degrees. The waist bend was about 90% there on the first try so I ran it through the heat/cool cycle 2 more times just to be sure. I'm going to let it rest in the bending form overnight. Then it's got a date with a roll of bias tape. Serge, you working on a ziricote project too? Kind of nasty stuff. Oily, doesn't like to sand, but seems to scrape ok. I have an old ryobi drum sander - took me about an hour to take 1/16 off the sides using 80 grit - slowest feed speed and a 1/64 depth of cut. I had to stop every pass to get the resin off the sandpaper. It would build so quickly that halfway through a pass it was leaving gouges in the wood from the streaks of resin building up on the paper. I put that set away for 6 months because I didn't want to deal with the hassle. I bought one of Craig Holden's router thicknessing jigs because of it. I really like it. Today it took me about 15 minutes to take 1/8 off the back and clean up the tool marks with a sander. Too bad Craig's no longer a sponsor. He seemed like a great guy. Bob K |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:03 am ] |
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No Bob, i ain't building with it yet, just gathering information on every type of wood i like and save it to my excel spreadsheet for when i do, it's a quick way to have a lot of info at a glance! After reading your post, i'm not sure if i really want to build with it though!  Maybe after 10-20 guitars under the belt!
Thanks Serge |
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| Author: | BobK [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:32 am ] |
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Great idea. I've been bookmarking the olf thread whenever i see info like this, probably be easier in the long run to make a spreadsheet. Hey maybe you should write a book. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:48 pm ] |
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Bob, when i gather enough info, i'll be glad to give it to the OLF, maybe someone else has already gathered something similar and would be interested in sharing? |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:58 pm ] |
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You need to get new paper for your sander Bob.. I use a stearated velcro back Klingspor 80 grit (www.shopsupply.com I think) and I could sand ziricote all day without the kind of issues you have. Ziricote has little resin in it IMO, and it mostly dusts up like ebony. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:16 am ] |
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Tony, is the Lee Valley 80 grits roll with adhesive good with ziricote? |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:30 am ] |
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Never really looked at it Serge .. I first started buying this stuff from a guy at the wood shows, he had these 2 inch drum sanders for the drill press (still have it and it gets used a lot) He also sells kits for drum sanders and this is the paper - I havent used anything this good, and its not that expensive. The coating helps it last a long time, and keeps it from gumming too bad, even in the rosewoods - there is nothing better IMO. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:07 am ] |
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Thanks Tony, i think mine should be good also, i had a full afternoon of sanding tops and backs and sides for the next 2 guitars and it only gummed up towards the end, just as i was to process the last side.Thanks Serge |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:35 am ] |
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you guys may think me crazy but when I bend Crackwood (aka Ziricote) I first flood one face of the sides with thin CA let it set over night then do the same on the other face. After the sides have been flooded on both faces and cured over night. I can then bend. I wear my reperator while doing this to avoid the fumes. They wont hurt you but are a major irritant. The CA will combust instantly at 500 F. and I am sure at lower temp over time but I have had no issue so far. I do keep a fire extinguisher at hand while doing this. Oh yea! I sand the surface of the sides to clean wood before the bend, so there is no CA build up on the sides. One nice thing about this process is it really cuts down on the pore filling and since I have done this I have not cracked a Ziricote set. the cost per set in CA I would guess is a bout $3.00 in CA depending on where you are buying it. and bend at 275 F.-300 F. |
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| Author: | npalen [ Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:57 am ] |
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Michael--ever tried bending flamed maple in a tight cutaway using your CA method? I assume that wetting the wood before bending would be a non-issue as it probably wouldn't absorb any. Nelson |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:58 am ] |
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No Nelson I have not, but it may be worth a try. Be prepared for the fumes if you try. You are right I do not add water when doing this. |
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| Author: | dberkowitz [ Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:40 am ] |
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Bob, what's the bias tape for? |
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| Author: | BobK [ Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:57 pm ] |
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bias tape David, I haven't actually used it yet but here's a link. hope it helps. |
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